Oh, let's see. Yeah, I don't know uh where Kall Kball might be here in short order, but maybe we give it a couple minutes to see while people trickle in. How's everybody's Friday? How y'all doing? >> Good. Good. Had uh you know, AI put together a talk for me. So, that [laughter] that was good. >> We like that. Oh, I I'm already liking the the pixelated kind of kind of [laughter] gamer gamer interface here. >> Is that me? >> Yeah, that is. That is. Yeah. >> Perfect. Perfect. Definitely tickling my pixel art. Uh uh bit of my brain. [clears throat] Approved. Approved. >> Steal that for my next uh OS you are. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. Um, Sloeno, I saw you on uh on

Yikes's uh stream. You had the Mac OS uh with the mobile windows. I was so jelly. I was like thinking like, "All right, maybe I want these to >> Yeah, I just prompted Claude to say like, "Hey, make a Mac OS UI." Right. >> That's so good. Yeah. I uh So then I was thinking like, "All right, I gotta I gotta get my [ __ ] together." And so my home base, I need these to be more like movable or or whatever. [snorts] Awesome. [clears throat] Well, yeah. I don't know >> if if you do that, like feel free to clone from my stuff because like moving windows quickly and stuff like that, that was like a little bit more work. >> Oh, okay. Nice. Yeah, >> I'll steal more for you. Sounds good. >> Steal the good ideas. That's the best thing. >> Cool. Well, speaking of good ideas, uh I don't see a cable, so I'm down to hit uh hit the record button and kick it off if unless you guys want to wait around and see. We got 15. So, we got a decent little crowd. So, I think we'll be in good shape. >> I figured I would I figured I'd start at

the five minute. >> Yeah, that seems >> for even even odd numbers. >> What do you think? You think it's going to be about an hour? You got a a good time block or um >> I have not timed it. Uh when I told the AI to uh to make the presentation for me, I told it it was going to be 45 minutes. So, we'll see. We'll see what happens. >> Beautiful. >> Yeah. Beautiful. >> I have not done a run through yet either. So, um, this will be it'll be an experience. I think it did a good job. I like flipping through the slides. I It's the first time that I feel like I'm I'm only going to be a little bit embarrassed. You know, >> honestly, I'm I'm a huge fan of make me a slide deck with HTML, CSS,JS, and a single file and just like make me one. I'd like that. I've been using that for I don't know probably good six months now. I I love them. They're big fans. >> Yeah. So So pretty close. So I even before AI, I had a a presentation, I guess you can call it framework called

Power Slides. And so that's what I always use, but it it picked it up, figured out how to how to put the slides in there. I wonder how long until you're just having your agent generate the slide deck and generate the presentation and then we're just sending our instances of open claw to ascend. >> I mean, yeah. [laughter] I mean, it pretty much did the whole the whole thing. I can uh here we'll do we'll do like a little bit of a preview. So this is this is the the Discord thread. Um yeah, working on a presentation and I I linked it to uh just like where the the power slides instance was and then you >> I see the I only see the screen the vibe coding anywhere with open claw still. >> Oh, you only see Oh, you don't see it

when I switch tabs. Oh, >> maybe it's just me. >> Yeah. >> No. Does anybody It's only the >> All right. So, you guys all see just the presentation right now, the landing page. >> All right. That's That's good to know now because I want to be able to >> Currently I >> All right. Let's see. >> I only see the VIP cutting anywhere. I think with clog. Okay. Even still right now. >> Oh, is this all messed up? >> Still. Yeah. >> All right. If I change slides, are people seeing my slides? >> No. >> Still seeing wipe coding anywhere with open claw. >> Okay. So, it's not updating at all.

Well, [sighs and gasps] sorry guys. What is going on? All right. So, share screen. Um, Chrome. All right. Well, I guess I could do Chrome tab. I guess >> Chrome tab. >> Oh, hold on. Region. Let's Let's try this. Let's try this. I think I don't know if this helps but I I did the same thing when I tried to do the paper in the paper club and there was two different options. I had to unshare and then reshare but the entire browser rather than just a single. I don't know if that helps. >> Um yeah. So, can you All right. What are you guys seeing now? You see vibe coding anywhere? And then do you see anything different now or you still see vibe coding anywhere?

Okay. >> And then do you see >> Okay. And then do you see another slide or no? >> It changed now to the demo. >> Now it changed. Okay. >> All right. Uh, cool. All right. We can work with this. Um, all right. Well, I guess 107. How about we get started? Um, hey everyone. I'm David Gutman. Uh, I'm going to be uh sharing with you sort of my multi-year chasing of the white whale of vibe coding on my phone and where I've gotten to. I'm going to start with um with I guess where where I'm at now. Uh so the demo is I'm going to show you uh Discord. I'm gonna tell it to make a change and then the change will happen. So, uh I have to um mess around a little bit uh to get this because it's not showing you the the tabs, but so let's

hopefully this isn't too painful. All right. So, you can see Discord here. Um this is what I was talking about. Everyone can see Discord. Can I see Discord? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Great. Okay, cool. All right. So, this is what I was saying before. uh all of the apologies in advance. This entire presentation is uh AI generated like the the entire thing. So this is this is how this goes. Um this house of Haku, this is my openclaw. My openclaw agent's name is Haku from Spirited Away. Uh he's like my henchman that does my dirty work. Um I've got different channels for it. This is where it orders me lunch. Uh just general stuff. And what we care about is projects. So this is the general project one. And so today uh for the demo um I have a project called uh Rambly if um I guess people haven't seen that before. Um that is a I'll just get show you the

little video real quick. So that's this one. So this is a uh like a 2D multiplayer game, but it's not a game. It's just positional audio. uh back during COVID, this is where I moved all of my meetups. Um and so for our little purposes today, we are going to uh make it so that when you go to the um uh the intro screen and you create a space, you can select which map that you go to because right now you can't and it always drops you into the um into the desert one. So, uh, important to all of this is Homebase. This is where I run all of my projects locally. So, uh, we were just seeing my talk. My talk is this one. Uh, oh, it just opened in a new tab and you can't see the new tab. Uh, so that's that's the, uh, that's where this is running locally on my machine. So, there is a

Rambly uh, um, instance. This is like the local server of Rambly running. Uh here you can't see the URL bar. All of my local projects are on jump.sh. So the URL that we are seeing right now is rambly uh jump.sh. Actually, you can see it right there. Okay. So, with that out of the way, let's go ahead and go back to Discord and tell Haku to uh change the um that little intro screen to let you select a map. So, uh, I'm going to say, um, you know, feature dev on the, um, uh, I guess, uh, join room screen. Actually, why am I even typing? Um, add a map select dropdown. Uh this will

be where uh someone chooses whether to push to talk or open mic let them choose maps between the island, the desert, the forest and cyberpunk maps. Cool. Okay. So, uh, I was saying this in the, [sighs] um, I was saying this in the in the Discord. Uh, back when I started with Claudebot, there were no Discord threads. So, that was my contribution to the open claw ecosystem. Um, uh, the Okay, so the transcription tool of choice. Uh, this is Vox type. Um, mind blowing up the font size of tab. Yeah, there you go. Uh, is that better? Good. Font size. Great. Cool. Um, yeah. So, I use Vox type. Uh, I run Arch by the way. Um, so, all right. So, right now, Haku is

thinking this is going off to Opus. I guess while this is going, I can show a little bit what these have looked like in the past. So, um I have another uh app that that I'm working on. This is an options trading app. Um kind so it's got like portfolio and you know trades and stuff like that. So, um a lot of the work that I've been doing is for that. So, that's over here. This is trade tracker. And so we can look scroll up and [snorts] see what um I don't know what's all right. So it opened up a thread and I just wanted to change where the emails were coming from and so it finds it and then you know merge and push and uh me being mean to my agent stuff like that. Um all right let's go ahead back over here.

Cool. All right. So, feature dev on the join room screen. Here's what I found. Character select. Okay. Let's do it. Sound check. Map situation. Found them. Oh, okay. Okay. All right. Quick question. Um. Oh, where should it live on? Yeah. Character select two. Oh, I wanted to know about the desert. Um, let's see if we can come back to that. Guess the problem with the live demo is uh I guess open opus 45 is not super fast with the the open claw. So let me see if I can is it a separate channel per project? Okay. So I'll answer questions while while this is going on. Um so I I have um different uh channels for project but I only have a couple. Most of them I would just throw in the general projects room, but once there's something that I'm working on um enough,

I create a channel for it. Um and then within the channel when I create, you know, a feature dev, it um it creates the thread for me. Okay. So, map dropown um uh pick character below the name. What's your name? Okay. Which world? Island. Yep. Cool. Uh that's fine. That's fine. Data flow. Uh uh um see the random map name is after. So, let's see. I think that should help it. Um,

let's see. Part of me thinks that I should have done a sort of shorter fix, but I did want you to see the whole um, let's see, hold on. Monitoring coordination for openclaw agents. Uh, no. I guess I don't really have monitoring according UI except for the discord uh for the agents. Okay. Do project channels have any special repo access prompt or is it just to make it easier to keep track of things? Uh, it is just to make it easier to keep track of things except there is a system prompt uh for the room that makes it know that if I'm in the Rambly room, it knows which project I'm talking about. If I am just in the generic projects uh channel, it will use the project skill which knows which directories to go look and stuff. All right, cool. All right, design. All right, so it's asking ready, you know, if this all looks good, ready for implementation. Yeah, go for it. All right, let's go look at the questions again. Is this all synchronous one turn

at a time or is open cloud doing things while waiting for responses? Uh it is definitely turnbased. Um so when I say you know it's not doing anything. So it says ready to set up for implementation it is idle until I say anything. When I say yes it's going to do a whole bunch of stuff you know itself uh before coming back to me. Am I running open claw in a container uh or on my local machine? I am running it on my local machine with all my sensitive data and everything. So that is where I am pretty cavalier and yolo. Um uh your mileage may vary. Um all right. Presumably this is via Discord skill for OpenClaw or did you have to rig up your own MCP or something? Uh one of the things that OpenClaw uh has on just like using cloud code on its own is has amazing integrations with Discord, Slack, WhatsApp, iMessage, Telegram, Signal, on

and on and on. Um no, no prompt injections. Um let's see. [laughter] Right. So, I guess I can go into the lethal trifecta, sensitive data, um, uh, access to untrusted content and communicate with the outside world. Um, theoretically, uh, my agent should not be visiting any pages or sending things to the outside world that isn't really coming from me. Um, I understand that that is not, you know, ironclad, but that's how I feel on the whole lethal trifecta is that it it definitely is a F on the sensitive data, but I try and keep the the other two corners of the the triangle somewhat minimized. All right. Um,

one OpenClaw instance running per one channel in Discord. It is one agent for all of this but each uh each thread is its own open claw um open claw uh session. [clears throat] All right. Please talk through the implementation steps and the prompt skill for work tree branch. Yeah. Okay. Got I'll get there. So setting up the implementation cloud codes writing the implementation plan. Review it post reapproval before any code gets written. Um so you can see here uh some things happened. So it created the work tree. All the work trees are um you know under the the project folder uh created a branch name and then um the jump.sh uh dev server runner. We've got Rambly wherever you are here. Um, we've got the uh the um the work tree

got picked up and so we have a separate uh instance running for this one. Uh let's see if it's running. Nope, it has a syntax error. Of course, because I'm doing a live demo, so of course it would. Uh but the idea is that uh it notices those uh work trees and it automatically runs them. Uh let's go back over here. Um this is taking much longer than I guess in my head, but for some reason in my head I thought this would be instant. Uh but obviously it's not. Let me see. Um turnbased workflow reduces problematic actions with CLIs. Uh, okay. I agree with each leg of the lethal trifecta is a spectrum and agents seem to do be pretty well behaved even though you may be technically providing all three legs. All right. Um, Steinberger spoke about using discuss to get a plan refined that made sense before going to build. Your flow looks

more prompt and respond by design. Have you tried different ways? I'm not quite sure what that YouTube video is. Not going to click on that just yet. Um, let's see. So yeah, I mean I guess it's prompt and respond. I'll talk a little bit about what the skills are um that are behind uh the feature development uh in a little bit, but let's see what we got. All right. Uh so it's got some phases. Uh so it's got the plan. So the design is separate from the plan. Here's the the plan. Um, and then I uh if I wanted I could get the whole plan. So, we've got the markdown. I could have it put that in Discord and I could see it. Uh, let's see. Um, oh, that's cool. Uh, I've been working on EVPF SOPS handling of secrets so the agent never sees them. That's cool. All right.

Um, how long until agents are given a proper user? Yeah, that would be a good way of doing it. I mean, I'll get to this later, but I do like um I like no friction. So, if I mention in a project, it just has it. There's no um there's no like real real delay or anything like that. Um, man, part of me just wants to like skip the rest of the demo and just get to where I talk about it and then the other part of me is really hoping that this does it. I guess we can just pretend that it did it. I'm gonna move on and then uh once I get the notification that it is done, we can take a take a look again. Ask Kaku what it wants. All right. All right. So, we did the demo. Um

this is the the moment where I knew that this was totally workable like this approach that you just saw still in progress was that uh options trading app uh I had built in my own uh sort of vanillajs framework and I got to the point where I just wanted it to be in React so that the agent could be you know much more comfortable. um pretty big uh you know a lot of different uh components, pages uh you know it wasn't wasn't super trivial. It was definitely the type of thing that would have taken me a very long time uh and even longer because I wouldn't have wanted to do it. Um it I was super impressed like it it like to the point um uh like I said, you know, it would have taken forever. I also wouldn't have I just would have procrastinated. Um it it was so good that I really thought that it didn't do anything because it was perfect one to one. Um the only clue that it wasn't and

that it actually did convert it to to React is all of a sudden there were symbols that used to be symbols were now escaped Unicode. Um okay. So the um the uh I guess what you saw before in the discord uh there were enough of the the clues. So you probably do know what happened. But one of the things that I guess like I would imagine people if they think about um [clears throat] open claw having open claw do do something is either openclaw is doing the editing itself because you know it's using opus and it can do that uh or it's doing oneshot prompts to either codeex or or claude um and it's not doing either of those. Uh, let me actually jump back because I think it um has something for us and Discord. Nope, it was just telling me that it um

was not. Okay, so let me tell you what's actually happening. Um, so open claw is actually opening t-mox. So, it is using the terminal and it is starting Claude and then when it is telling Claude to do things, it is actually typing into the Claude uh prompt box. Uh so, we've got Discord. Uh that's how I interface with it like you saw. Uh that is talking to OpenClaw. Uh OpenClaw is running T-Max and Clawed Code and then of course homebase is how I test and um verify it. All right. So I got asked how how's token burn rate with your use cases. Uh so I am using the um you know the max Claude subscription. I'm using my Claude code token uh exactly like I'm not supposed to be and uh so far so good until of course it's not. But uh I haven't hit limits or anything like that. Um, so

[clears throat and cough] all right. So, so one of the things that that I like about this compared to what I was doing, you know, in the past is that Discord is just really good on mobile. Like the the um [laughter] um yeah uh yikes if you want to cut that out from the from the the the vid the the video before it goes up. So, um, Discord, being able to like talk to the agent just on Discord, uh, being able to get plans back and have it rendered in a very readable way, uh, is is really nice. Um, T-Mox, uh, this is pretty cool because I can open up terminal and I can see what the agent is typing into T-Mo and Claude Code. Um, uh, which is really nice. um claude code especially for the thing that I'm not just going to mention again it's really nice that the coding is going through the official sanctioned uh channel so a lot of the tokens are um uh are going

through the actual claude code app uh openclaw uh really good on the skills uh it is really consistent with the skills uh it's also really excuse me uh really easy to to change the skills on the fly. So if it does something wrong, you can like tell it like, "Hey, how do we prevent that in the future?" It'll rewrite its skills. Uh what's really nice about this is that um when it is prompting Claude code, uh it is very consistent. So, if I was talking to Claude Code myself, even though there are things that really really help like having it maintain a uh like an agent diary, um shout out to Sloan because I've stolen his uh agent diary template. It was better than the one that I was using before. Um it is really consistent about putting that into the prompt for it to use it. uh which is even better than having it in claude's you know claude MD which it sometimes ignores or not but when it's

in the prompt it's much more um specific uh of course and then the work trees really nice to have uh these URLs that I can hit on my phone it's all uh closed off it's via tail scale but it's really nice to go to homebase and then be able to just click on a link for one of these dev servers or the the workree uh server so all of these like small little things that came together really made this my um you know method of choice. Um so if you were to try and do this yourself, I think there's there's 11 things that um I don't know maybe not obvious. Um so the communication between openclaw and clawed code because of the way that the the the um the turns work. Open claw will type something into cloud code. Cloud code will start working and without anything else you're not going to get open claw to like go check it again. And so the whole point you know

is defeated if you're the one that has to watch cla code and then tell openclaw to you know go go do it. Um so this is done maybe un you know unsurprisingly with claude uh code hooks. Um so this is on the notification hook. Um the way that this works is that um the t-mux session encodes the open claw session and so when the hook fires uh that script can extract the session the openclaw session from the t-mux session and it can send the wake message like hey cloud code's finished go look at it to the correct openclaw session uh that has the context for whatever This this is uh if it went to the main agent, it wouldn't. If it went to any of the other sessions, it wouldn't. Uh so this is what keeps that uh all all connected. Um another super uh annoying thing with the T-Mox is uh cloud code would just

like type something in the cloud code um like entry box or or paste it in is actually how it does it. And then it would not hit enter. it would think that cloud code is off doing something uh but it wouldn't and then eventually I would be like hey you know where is that thing and then you know be like oh crap it never hit enter so trying to like figure out how to get around that I created my own like I guess special t-ux like tool uh that made it a lot more um uh consistent um I don't know if this is really something that people don't know but claude code will totally lie Okay. And so the a big part of open claw here is to make sure that cloud code is doing what it's supposed to be doing. Um I had mentioned rambly, right? Rambly is the thing that we're working on. Uh I taught openclaw how to do um transcription and speech in there. I got the speech working. Saw that that worked. So it could go into a room. It could do text to speech. Could say

something to me. That was cool. I wanted the transcription to work and figured I could have an endto-end loop uh where it could test itself because I knew it could say something. So therefore, it could iterate until the transcription matched what it said. Um cloud code totally cheated. Uh it knew um what it was spoken and it just shortcircuited the the test. Um and so you know when openclaw went to check it did its own test and saw that the transcription didn't match the um the thing that it was saying. Um context compaction. Uh one of the things that I really like about this uh model is it makes it much more robust a compaction before. I don't know maybe a lot of you have figured out compaction or I heard that codeex 5.3 uh doesn't have the same issues. But the one of my most maddening uh you know points in vibe coding would be when claude code uh compacts and loses uh I don't know its mind. Um so uh one of the nice things is

that openclaw being the supervisor is able to um is to kind of like keep it keep it going. Uh and one of the ways that that it does this is that it kind it doesn't give Claude like the full plan. Um it uses clear like very liberally. Uh it inlines the task. Um and it kind of you know keeps it pretty pretty scoped. Um all right the environment file sim link problem. So this is one of the reasons why I avoided um work trees for the longest time. I felt like I was taking taking crazy pills because I never really heard anybody else talk about it. Maybe I just never looked whatever it was. But uh the idea that I had to manually go copy the environment file over every time I created a work tree just made me never want to do it. Uh Homebase will scan the work tree directories. When it sees one, it spins it up and it um sim links the uh the environment file from the from the parent. Right? So home home server is

this dev server orchestration. It's kind of the other reason why I really hated work trees is keeping track of ports and um uh you know which port the dev server was on and there would be like conflicts and all kinds of other annoyance uh there. Again, a thing I didn't really see other people uh talk about. Right. So the workree scanner in homebase uh because this is all standardized that all the work trees are in the work trees directories in any project that it knows about it can scan those autodiscocover sim link the the environment file create the subdomain where it's like the project- branch starts the dev server and then it also can see when those are removed and it and it does the cleanup um I touched on this before that the the thread ID key um is the the routing key. Um so the T-Mox session uh encodes that and so when the wake thread happens it it's able to get that back to um back to

open claw. Um I also like ran into some weird stuff on the on the wake thread. Um so again this is the cloud code hook that um tells um tells open claw when it's done you know whatever it's current you know working on thing uh to like go back and and check it. Um there would be some like I don't know part of this is a skill issue and I think I just uh messed some things up and I think I I had too much going on. Um, but pretty much if there was like more than one hook to like debounce it um and not have uh I guess multiple wakes going on. Um I think this is probably fixed um a little bit. Uh so here's here we're going to talk about the the skills. Um when um when I was on a mobile interface uh or I just anytime I'm prompting the agent and

I'm doing it myself, uh the typing is pretty annoying. So even though I know that having the agent do a diary because it helps during compaction and a lot of other things, it's a really good artifact to have, I don't always remember. or I will just hope for the best and not type it in because I'm I'm lazy. Um because that is in the skill of openclaw. Um it will always put it in and so that's one of the things you can see if you're watching the T-Ux and then you can watch it drive. Um I guess I als you know like I also transcribe but uh actually it's kind of annoying sometimes around other people and I don't want to like talk into my phone that way. Um but yeah, OpenC Claw is really good at being consistent on what it is putting into its prompts. Um which is nice. Okay, so these are the all the skills that uh that are going on um when uh you know when I start one of those threads and it's doing uh feature development. So, a

real basic one if it's not in a channel or I guess even if it is in a channel related to a project, uh there's a simple skill for like where to find it on the file system of which project I'm talking about. Brainstorming. This one comes from the superpowers uh skills. Um that's where it's like interviewing me and giving me these like multiple choice responses for what I want. Uh so that's where that came from. Also, superpowers was uh using the git work trees uh came from there as well. The thread t-mux is one of the ones that um I came up with to link the discord threads and the open cloth session to t-mox. Cloud code t-mox is how to actually run cloud code in t-mux and to handle the you know actually sending things and not sitting there forever. uh cloud code supervisor is the one that uh is kind of like a complicated Ralph Wiggum loop where that's the one that it knows that it's going to go tell Cloud code to do

something. it's going to come back and say like, "Yeah, I did most of it." And then it's got to say, "Okay, well, finish it." And then also the verification and kind of telling it to like keep getting back to work. And then once it's all done finishing a development branch, which is like pushing up a PR or, you know, cleaning up the whole thing. Um, I'm going to take a quick break back to see if we have um the uh rambly thing to look at. Is this one map? Okay. All right. Successfully verify the maps. Stop down. All right. So these messages here, this is when the um the wake uh the um the cloud hook fires and it's telling the uh open claw that it's done. So you can see that there are multiple ones where it didn't actually come back to me. So it's like cloud code comes to it, it goes

tells it to do some more stuff. I don't see it and then it comes back. Um, so it says that it did it and so we can go ahead and see if that is actually true. I'm a little bit nervous because when we saw this before there was like a import um error. So fingers crossed. Oh, okay. Moment of truth. Whoa. All right. There we go. Let's see. David. Yep. island. Maybe, maybe, maybe. All right. Yeah, there you go. We're in the island. There you go. And uh you can't see it, but the URL is um is good as well. So, let's see. Let's go to the forest. Yeah. Cool. Well, that is lovely. I am pleased. Uh where were we? Okay.

Um, cool. Persistence loop. So, this is what I was just saying again about the uh like the you know complicated Ralph Wigum. Uh, so send the task, make sure that it's complete, verify, retry until done. Um, OpenCloud tries to do a um like a checklist. I also added it where once the implementation's done, it sends it to codeex to be a personnicity bastard and also call cloud code out on its on its [ __ ] which uh I think helps. Um SK versus T-Mox, right? Uh so theoretically this could be done in other ways. I really like the T-Mox uh version because I can see very easily what those prompts are. Um uh and when I tried it in other um you know other things like happy or Amnara uh it was just always I could never really trust it. It would break in in weird ways. Uh, and so that kind of brings me to the years, uh, years now

that I've been trying to get to this place, and this is now the the farthest I've gotten and the happiest I've been with this. Um, so the very first thing that I did was uh with cursor. So I would run just leave my laptop open. I'd have BNC on it. I would on my phone use screens and you know I would zoom and pan over to the sidebar of cursor and tell it what I wanted and then it you know scroll you know hit enter whatever. Uh I did have tail scale I did have the dev servers running. I did not have homebased so I didn't have the cool jump.sh URLs. Um yeah terminal on phone is brutal. What's even more brutal is VNC and like screen sharing. um especially when I'd have my laptop hooked up to, you know, a big widescreen monitor. Uh and anyways, so I hated it. Uh it did work, but it was painful as [ __ ] Um the next thing that I did was I created uh like an Ader web thing. Eventually Ader did create a web

interface. Uh this predated that. What I was doing here was I created a I guess effectively it was like a Docker thing. you would give it a repo of whatever your project was. So like in this case I would give it like Rambl's repo. I could also give it some uh keys. I could create a deploy key so that it could check out the code within the Docker container. it would also install Ader next to it and then it would run a um I guess effectively a a proxy reverse proxy so that if you went to the root it would be Rambly and then if you went to like slash you would then get a a streamed terminal uh from running inside the container to the browser so that you could talk to Ader and so you would tell Ader what you wanted changed and then it would edit Rambly and then Rambly could live reload and the other um tab. Uh the fun demo uh was obnoxious in its own lovely way. Uh also was expensive because it you know I

wasn't using curs like instead of using cursor where I could use VC money uh I was spending my own API tokens and I don't know was was okay but it wasn't. Anyways the next thing that I attempt was vibe vibe mob vibe I never landed on a name. Uh the idea for this was like multiplayer um vibe coding in Discord. So we have the AI in action Discord bot. The dream was that we could all uh just in Discord uh make feature requests and it would um uh you know it would make those make those changes. Um, I kind of touched on this um before um with like the SDK and I guess why we used T-Mox. It's a little bit different. Anyways, trying to get the the terminal output uh from Ader in a way that streamed into Discord was brutal and I hated it. Uh

okay this is like the longest running one is uh just running t-mux and quad code and sshing into it. Um this has been the bread and butter until open claw came along just have a Linux server always running in my office and that is at the point where I developed home base and this was great. Um, totally worked except that I mean having a terminal on your phone just sucks. Uh, lots of issues with transcription like Siri won't talk into it. Uh, found Whisper Flow. Whisper Flow um did work which is good. Um now also in the same vein um you have things like happy and nara and their whole uh value proposition is SSH and terminal on a phone sucks. Uh so they have lovely mobile interfaces uh to do that. Uh

Amnara started by trying to like scrape out the um like the the standard out from claw code. anytime it was updated, it would break really hard. Kind of the same thing I was talking about with uh like getting Ader to go into Discord. Um and eventually they switched to using the SDK. I forget exactly what Happy is using right now. Either the SDK or Terminal. Uh I think Terminal, but either way, it's just like I could never trust it. Uh it would like have disconnects. Happy wouldn't let you put in uh images. I think it might let you do that now. Um, and like once Amnar switched to the SDK, I would I it even I even lost the ability to open up T-Mox and see if the prompts were getting getting through. So, it just wound up being too frustrating uh to use those. I couldn't trust them. And so, even though I played with them, I went back to to SSH and um

uh yeah, terminal terminal. And so, uh, here we are. Open claw. I, because it's using T-Mox, I can go in, I can see what it's, uh, cloud code session is like. Um, so I I know what's going on. And I guess there's also just like this really nice part which is that when I was using T-Mox and SSH like I would have to use the terminal to go into these different project folders and then start upcloud code. Um and again it was just like a lot more of this like terminal usage. Um the benefit of having OpenClaw do this and letting it run wild and you know uh you know hope you know maybe get pawned uh from a huge security uh issue is that I can just talk to OpenClaw. It's got you know free range on my machine and I don't have to you know CD into different directories or or run anything. It can just um do that.

Also, everything's in Discord, so it's got um it's just like this one central place for me where I can see a lot of things, but it's also it can see Discord. So, I get a report at the end of the day of all the open loops. So, it knows different things that I asked it to do that uh I added and didn't come back to and never merged or whatever. It can see all those things and, you know, tell me like, hey, um you know, get on it. Um, you and I guess like this is sort of like another example. I think I mentioned this earlier. So like OpenClaw every day ask me what I want for lunch. I just type one, two, three, or four and it will open up GrubHub, order the food and it shows up at my office. And so it's just I don't know. I think there's like the opposite of the uh Spider-Man quote, you know, it is like with great responsibility comes great power. It's like if I want it to do more and more for me, I have to give it um more and more access and there is like this

decrease in friction that comes from the um the centralization that that I like. Um yeah, so I I don't know. I guess to wrap it all up, we got Discord, uh really nice on mobile. They spent, you know, [ __ ] ton of effort getting that to work. T-Mux makes it observable. uh claude code does the actual implementation and you've got this sort of like complicated Ralph Wiggum loop that it can do. Uh the skills like anytime you know there's something that goes wrong it's very easy for me to tell openclaw to update the skill or to pull something in. uh homebase really nice especially once I figured out work trees with the sim links and you know port you know all the port stuff and getting the URLs that's really nice um before I had that uh I was really shy about parallel um tasks and now I I can really just go wild um with it and yeah it's just really kind

of interesting that even though like with you know OpenAI and having the OpenAI app and like it's got all the different threads. It just like does not work the same way. Um did not hook me nearly as much as being able to have just this like one Discord server with with everything. Um so we could do have a little bit of time left. I'm actually pretty damn impressed with Open Claus generating a 45inut presentation. I just have to say that uh right now. Okay. questions. I think we got Oh, let's see. Oh, you guys couldn't see the game screen. [ __ ] Sorry. Um, is that true?

Oh, you never saw the demo. Damn. Sorry. I wish someone was uh jumped in on the um uh voice to tell me that. I am so sorry. Okay, so here's here's the cyberpunk um island people can see it now. I hope. Uh >> yeah. No. >> All right. There we go. All right. Yeah. So, all the different maps that were created before um that people had to know the secrets, well, now you got a now there's a a drop down, which is pretty pretty cool. All right. Uh All right. What What are the other questions that I missed?

Okay. Are you extracting text from T-Max PES then or using the cloud code streaming JSON input output? Uh extracting text from the T-Mox. Um yeah, the claude code streaming JSON input output. That's the stuff that gave Amnara such a brutally hard time that they switched to the SDK. Um I I just like that. Um, open claw is seeing the same thing in cloud code that I am. It just makes it like, you know, I don't have to type into cloud code like a farmer. Like I can have, you know, my guy do it. All right. Compartment. >> Did you uh run into issues where like the T-Max pane is scrolling, right? And sometimes it gets two T-Max pane outputs that are like overlapping. Does it seem to just like handle that just fine? >> Yeah, that has not been an issue. The way that the tool works for T-Mux is that it basically gets to choose how many lines uh it wants from the bottom. And so I think it just like defaults to getting the last 50 or 100 lines or

something to see what what it wanted. And I think it's smart enough that if it wasn't enough, it'll it'll ask for more >> on that um T-Max tool. Is that an MCP, a skill, a plugin, something you some glue code you custom did or is it just the scripts that you uh >> the the t the the T-Max um integration? Uh so oh yeah so open claw came with one um and so that is what it started with and then I have a tool on top of that which standardizes how it creates the t-ux sessions such that it encodes the open claw session ID to like tie them together. So I have like a very simple tool that builds on either builds on or just like copy paste whatever was in the the other team one to like do the four standard actions of like creating one getting the text out of it uh cleaning up and I don't know I forget whatever

else. >> Yeah, I had a related question just to this part as well like I was getting a little bit confused as to where you've customized certain things. So with that T-max with that T-max skill because now that claude code kind of can spawn its own sub agents do you have to specify in there that when uh uh when your open claw instance wants to do something it has to spin up a separate T-mark session per agent or does it just do that without spinning sub aents in the initial instance if that makes sense. >> Um let me see if I understand. So you're asking whether open claw needs to do something like spin up multiple cloud codes or maybe I'm not understanding >> is that so basically what is happening when it breaks down a particular >> um uh feature request okay >> is spinning up yeah

>> I'll tell you what's happening and hopefully that'll answer your question and if not uh just let me know. So, uh, the the first step is, hey, I want this feature. That kicks off the brainstorming skill. And so, it's going to be asking me a bunch of questions. Once that's finished, OpenClaw, we haven't gotten to Cloud Code yet, OpenC Claw is putting together effectively a design document or like a design brief. At that point, it then opens up um, T-Mox and Claude Code in a work tree that it's created. It spawns Claude code, gives it the design brief and asks Claude code to come up with a plan. Uh once it has the plan, it writes that to a file and then it uh it basically does what cloud code would do for you automatically where it's like all right, should I clear context and like get going? Open claw is gonna clear its context and open claw is going to take just whatever the first phase of the plan is and put that into cloud code and

tell it to go. Um so it's almost like I don't know duplicating the work by not letting claude code do its standard you know sub agent plan breakdown or whatever. Um, and the only reason why I'm doing that is because I'm trying to give more control to OpenClaw to be the supervisor and have like responsibility for the different phases and the like acceptance criteria and take that away from from Claude. Does that answer your question? Hopefully. Yeah. Okay. All right. Is there any other question that I missed? >> Classic question I always ask like where do you want to go next? >> Where do I want to go next? Um, I mean there's just like so many like

fiddly rough edges that I think come from the the the agent not always respecting its skills. And I can't really predict when that's going to happen. Like sometimes it will just open a work tree in the wrong place. But it's it is really consistent. But it's just I don't know. One time out of 15 it won't. And I don't know if that's like a I was going to say a skill issue. Did not intend that pun. Like you know maybe it's just the way that I have it set up like it you know I'm not doing it right. um or um you know like sometimes it's not going to send it over to codeex to like check the implementation or a big one is like whether or not it's like open claw is really doing a good enough end to end verification. I would say that's probably one of the things that I find to be there's a couple of things that I find to be really important that I have not like really nailed which

would be um some like test driven development like getting like getting a test that really matters uh you know that really encapsulates whether or not this feature is done you know for a user. Having open claw go check and make sure that that fails. having Claude then build the thing and then open Claw go check that it passes. Uh I find that is really hard for me could be a skill issue for it to be consistent about that and not you know um cheat me. Uh so that I think would be great. Um yeah. >> So what what is your workflow like? How much are you actually having to sit down and carefully scope out tasks versus going to the cafe and basically being able to do everything from your phone? >> Oh, I mean, I think you pretty much just saw it, right? Like, um, that is that is very very common. Um, you know, don't get me wrong, like it

can really piss me off. Uh, like I I definitely have a pretty bad temper when it comes to to agents not doing what I want. Um, I'm ashamed to say. uh so that you know it doesn't always go perfectly but um this is generally the workflow that I use now even when I am at a desktop I'm doing it through discord it works that well >> can I just say this is [ __ ] awesome I so I'm so happy that you you shared this and I've set it up for myself and you have a repo or something that where you explain or you can >> man I think I think maybe that's yeah I think Zack Maybe that's where I go next is like try and uh put this together. Uh by all means like any question you have just like hit me in the in the the um the latent space discord because it'd be good to have that prompting of like what should be put out first and you know what people actually care about and yeah I'll be happy to start putting that together for folks.

Yeah, I guess I'll I'll add that my uh uh David Gutman's presentation on OpenClaw for all your AGI needs is uh I'm happy with that with that description here today. It's this is going to be a pretty fun one to play with. >> All right. Well, I think that's it. If you want to see some of my other weird projects, they're all at david.app. And thanks for for coming. >> Perfect timing, too. We are exactly at 2 [snorts] o'clock. So the uh Yeah, the >> claw nailed it. >> Exactly. Right. [laughter] Got minutes. Right on the money. >> Uh I got a question. Yeah, Rambly is open. You can use Rambly for whatever. Uh and yeah, I just taught I taught Rambly how to or OpenClaw how to join Rambly. So that's coming soon. >> Sick. Well, yeah. Uh you can use the bot in Discord if you want to sign up for another talk. I think we have one maybe next week, but yes, >> I think >> is this Swix. >> Cool. Sweet. >> Yeah. Well, we we got one on the docket,

but we want you to come through and show us even if it's not as cool or if it's not done or if it's uh uh you know, just a thing you're experimenting with. As long as it's interesting, we want you to come through and show us so we can we can hack on it with you potentially. Um or at least know about it because it's important to do that these days. But uh I think with that we can just call it a wrap there. Thank you everybody for coming through and happy Friday. Enjoy your open clause and hackings and other things. GG.